190 Visa Refusal - Need Help (positive assessment hr adviser)

alphadog · October 2013

Hi. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Here's my story:

I applied for a 190 visa as a Human Resource Adviser for my husbands business (pawnshop/money changer). I got a positive assessment from VETASSESS. On mid August, we got a visit from an integrity officer from the AU embassy in Manila. I was not in the office during that time. They interviewed one of our employees (head cashier). Our employees doesn't know that we applied for an AU Visa. Below is the explanation why i was not awarded the 10 points for work experience, thus reducing my claimed points from 65 to 55, hence the Visa Refusal.

(1) "On 14 August 2013 this office conducted an investigation into your employment with ____________________. Our officer visited the premises of your employer and spoke to some of the staff attending the shop.

(2) The staff at the shop advised our officers that the shop is a family business and your spouse is the manager of the shop and you assist him in the management of the business including hiring of personnel.

(3) Your staff advised our officers that there are four (4) current employees. Namely: 2 cashiers, 1 filing clerk and 1 ticket writer, all of whom are long term employees.

(4) The staff further advised our officer that you only assist in the management of the business including hiring of personnel. After receiving a phone call the staff changed her information that there are 10 employees but they are not present. The staff advised our officers that staff use time cards to report attendance but later said that the shop keeps a notebook of staff attendance but they are not allowed to show it to anybody.

(5) The next day you contacted our officers and informed them that since they maintain regular employees for many years there is no need to perform personnel tasks on a daily basis. You do not perform the duties the duties and tasks such as study and interpret legislations, collective agreements and employment contracts, developing, planning and formulating enterprise agreements etc.

(6) Based on the information you provided to our officers, together with information collated at the time of visit I have determined that the tasks and duties you performed are closely related of to that of business owner or shop manager ANZSCO 14211 which is not included in the Skilled Migration List and therefore no points are awarded. You do not perform the majority of tasks and duties of a Human Resource Adviser (ANZSCO 14211)."

(2) As per our cashier, she was asked kung ano trabaho ko doon and ang sabi nya ako ang HR adviser and asawa ko ang may ari at manager.

(3) when she was asked kung ilan sila ngayon sa tindahan, sinabi nya 4 sila ngayon na nasa shop

(4) nung tinanong sya kung ano pa ang ibang ginagawa ko, sinabi nya, hindi na nya alam lahat ng ginagawa ko, ang alam lang nya is ako yung nag hire at nag interview at ako din ang nag-aayos ng sss/philhealth, pag-ibig. habang magkausap sila, may tumawag na customer at nagtanong ng rate (as per our cashier). may mga iba pa daw tinanong sa kanya yung officer, kung tuwing kailan ako nadoon at yung asawa ko. during the conversation, i believe na sinabi ng cashier namin na 10 lahat ang employee pero may mga hindi pumapasok, the officer said "ah, awol" (why is it insinuated that after receiving a phone call she changed the number of employees, i believe what happened is that she is informing the officer kung ilan talaga lahat kami sa shop). re: time card, i asked her kung sinabi nya na may ganun kami. our cashier said, ang sinabi nya sa notebook sila pumipirma ng attendance. hindi daw nya sinabi na may time card kami. and nung tinanong sa kanya kung pwede makita, hindi nya pinakita. sinabihan sya ng isa naming staff na nasa back office na bawal magpakita ng records ng business sa ibang tao. (it is our company policy that they are not allowed to show any records or divulge any information about the company and our employees for security reasons). tinanong pa daw sya ng officer kung hindi ko ba sila sinabihan na may dadating from AU embassy, ang sagot ng cashier is hindi po, nagulat nga ako e. i did not inform our employees that we are applying for an AU visa. nung paalis na yung officer and sabi nya sa cashier namin "sorry na lang hindi ko nakausap si madam" as per our cashier sinabi nya ito na parang naka ngiti, parang sarcastic ang pagkakasabi.

(5) i did not inform the officer that there is no need to perform personnel tasks on a daily basis. he asked me if i could honestly say that 99% of my day is spent doing hr tasks, i said no, not 99% of my day. And no, i do not perform this particular task (legislation, collective agreement....) because we are just a small business and our staff does not have a union, therefore no need for this task.

(6) how could he say that my duties is more related to that of a shop manager or business owner, that is my husbands job. and thru that interview, how did he assess that outcome. why would VETASSESS give me a positive assessment if my duties are not fit to that of an HR Adviser.

* most of the tasks i perform is that of an hr adviser. if i remember correctly, during my conversation with the officer he was already insisting that i am more of a shop manager. i honestly do not have any idea how he came up with that assessment. why didnt the case officer contacted me after he was given the report so i could have explained?

any help or input would be greatly appreciated. i refuse to accept this outcome. is there anything i could do? we do not have a mara agent. processed this application on our own

sorry for the long post, i am really stressed for help.

thank you.

JCsantos · October 2013

consult a professional immigrant agent/lawyer for your problem .. I guess the forum cant help you

TasBurrfoot · October 2013

Hi. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Here's my story:

I applied for a 190 visa as a Human Resource Adviser for my husbands business (pawnshop/money changer). I got a positive assessment from VETASSESS. On mid August, we got a visit from an integrity officer from the AU embassy in Manila. I was not in the office during that time. They interviewed one of our employees (head cashier). Our employees doesn't know that we applied for an AU Visa. Below is the explanation why i was not awarded the 10 points for work experience, thus reducing my claimed points from 65 to 55, hence the Visa Refusal.

(1) "On 14 August 2013 this office conducted an investigation into your employment with ____________________. Our officer visited the premises of your employer and spoke to some of the staff attending the shop.

(2) The staff at the shop advised our officers that the shop is a family business and your spouse is the manager of the shop and you assist him in the management of the business including hiring of personnel.

(3) Your staff advised our officers that there are four (4) current employees. Namely: 2 cashiers, 1 filing clerk and 1 ticket writer, all of whom are long term employees.

(4) The staff further advised our officer that you only assist in the management of the business including hiring of personnel. After receiving a phone call the staff changed her information that there are 10 employees but they are not present. The staff advised our officers that staff use time cards to report attendance but later said that the shop keeps a notebook of staff attendance but they are not allowed to show it to anybody.

(5) The next day you contacted our officers and informed them that since they maintain regular employees for many years there is no need to perform personnel tasks on a daily basis. You do not perform the duties the duties and tasks such as study and interpret legislations, collective agreements and employment contracts, developing, planning and formulating enterprise agreements etc.

(6) Based on the information you provided to our officers, together with information collated at the time of visit I have determined that the tasks and duties you performed are closely related of to that of business owner or shop manager ANZSCO 14211 which is not included in the Skilled Migration List and therefore no points are awarded. You do not perform the majority of tasks and duties of a Human Resource Adviser (ANZSCO 14211)."

(2) As per our cashier, she was asked kung ano trabaho ko doon and ang sabi nya ako ang HR adviser and asawa ko ang may ari at manager.

(3) when she was asked kung ilan sila ngayon sa tindahan, sinabi nya 4 sila ngayon na nasa shop

(4) nung tinanong sya kung ano pa ang ibang ginagawa ko, sinabi nya, hindi na nya alam lahat ng ginagawa ko, ang alam lang nya is ako yung nag hire at nag interview at ako din ang nag-aayos ng sss/philhealth, pag-ibig. habang magkausap sila, may tumawag na customer at nagtanong ng rate (as per our cashier). may mga iba pa daw tinanong sa kanya yung officer, kung tuwing kailan ako nadoon at yung asawa ko. during the conversation, i believe na sinabi ng cashier namin na 10 lahat ang employee pero may mga hindi pumapasok, the officer said "ah, awol" (why is it insinuated that after receiving a phone call she changed the number of employees, i believe what happened is that she is informing the officer kung ilan talaga lahat kami sa shop). re: time card, i asked her kung sinabi nya na may ganun kami. our cashier said, ang sinabi nya sa notebook sila pumipirma ng attendance. hindi daw nya sinabi na may time card kami. and nung tinanong sa kanya kung pwede makita, hindi nya pinakita. sinabihan sya ng isa naming staff na nasa back office na bawal magpakita ng records ng business sa ibang tao. (it is our company policy that they are not allowed to show any records or divulge any information about the company and our employees for security reasons). tinanong pa daw sya ng officer kung hindi ko ba sila sinabihan na may dadating from AU embassy, ang sagot ng cashier is hindi po, nagulat nga ako e. i did not inform our employees that we are applying for an AU visa. nung paalis na yung officer and sabi nya sa cashier namin "sorry na lang hindi ko nakausap si madam" as per our cashier sinabi nya ito na parang naka ngiti, parang sarcastic ang pagkakasabi.

(5) i did not inform the officer that there is no need to perform personnel tasks on a daily basis. he asked me if i could honestly say that 99% of my day is spent doing hr tasks, i said no, not 99% of my day. And no, i do not perform this particular task (legislation, collective agreement....) because we are just a small business and our staff does not have a union, therefore no need for this task.

(6) how could he say that my duties is more related to that of a shop manager or business owner, that is my husbands job. and thru that interview, how did he assess that outcome. why would VETASSESS give me a positive assessment if my duties are not fit to that of an HR Adviser.

* most of the tasks i perform is that of an hr adviser. if i remember correctly, during my conversation with the officer he was already insisting that i am more of a shop manager. i honestly do not have any idea how he came up with that assessment. why didnt the case officer contacted me after he was given the report so i could have explained?

any help or input would be greatly appreciated. i refuse to accept this outcome. is there anything i could do? we do not have a mara agent. processed this application on our own

sorry for the long post, i am really stressed for help.

thank you.

goodluck to you...

rachelle_gan2 · October 2013

@TasBurrfoot ✌️✌️ Ang haba naman ng advice mo..

TasBurrfoot · October 2013

@TasBurrfoot ✌️✌️ Ang haba naman ng advice mo..

icebreaker1928 · October 2013

bumibisita pala talaga sila... natry nyo na iappeal at ipaliwanag ang side nyo?

KualaKangaroo · October 2013

@alphadog Sino po naging CO nyo?

meehmooh · October 2013

@alphadog .. maybe, the officer is checking if what you have submitted na job details sa vetassess are true.. if you can present naman lahat ng job details are true.. i think you can appeal.

alphadog · October 2013

@KualaKangaroo

HL ang initial ng CO ko, chinese sounding ang name.

alphadog · October 2013

@meehmooh

may idea paano mag appeal? hindi ko nga alam bakit hindi ako binigyan ng chance ng CO to explain my side after na receive nya yung report.

alphadog · October 2013

@icebreaker1928

oo, nagulat nga kami na nag visit sila e. hindi pa ako nakakapag try mag appeal. alam ko kasi ang appeal sa MRT applicable lang sa onshore applicants. We could only appeal thru our sponsor, which is ACT, that is kung papayag sila na mag appeal para sa amin.

i will email the CO regarding the refusal.

rachelle_gan2 · October 2013

@KualaKangaroo

HL ang initial ng CO ko, chinese sounding ang name.

Anong team po ung CO nyo?

meehmooh · October 2013

@alphadog .. so it means husband mo ang employer mo? Sya rin nag sign ng employment certificate mo? I think yun ang reason talaga why the officer has visited your place.. maybe they though may discripancy... But skills must be really comparable to Australian standard.. so think if your work is really same as HR adviser as that of australian standard.. You can email your CO and explain.

KualaKangaroo · October 2013

@alphadog Team 34. BH
Sa letter po ba nya may sinabi na final decision and may chance of appealing? Or hinihintay ka nya to explain on the grounds of providing more evidence until certain date?

rachelle_gan2 · October 2013

@KualaKangaroo Ung CO ko Belinda name from T34.. d ko alam ung surname name nya.. Ung CO mo initial is BH my sinabi ba na name?

KualaKangaroo · October 2013

@rachelle_gan2 Sa palagay ko parehas tayo ng CO based sa first name. That's cool. May ka CO na ako kung ganoon.

rachelle_gan2 · October 2013

@rachelle_gan2 Sa palagay ko parehas tayo ng CO based sa first name. That's cool. May ka CO na ako kung ganoon.

Nakalimutan ko timeline mo.. nag lodge ka naba? update mo naman.. nasa profile lang un.. tapos signature..Dun mo lang lagay..

Medyo matagal naba ung sau?

apc · October 2013

strict talaga ang immigration if it's a family business. Mas madaling mag apply pag employed kayo ng iba na hindi niya relative Pag sa family business ang experience niyo. Bibisiytahin talaga nila ang workplace especially kung nasa Metro Manila lang ang workplace.

alphadog · October 2013

@rachelle_gan2

team 7 adelaide

alphadog · October 2013

@meehmooh

yes, ni research ko muna yun if the same. i am assuming what i do is comparable sa Aus Standard kasi nabigyan ako positive assessment ng VETASSESS. Thank you for your advice, I will email my CO. Sana lang, i consider nya explanation ko.

alphadog · October 2013

@KualaKangaroo

I think it is a final decision, pero may sinasabi doon na i could appeal sa MRT. Kaya naguguluhan ako, kasi alam ko ang pwede lang mag appeal sa MRT is onshore applicants.

rachelle_gan2 · October 2013

@rachelle_gan2

team 7 adelaide

Yung team na napunta sa inyo Considered na isa sa pinakamabilis na team. Bago nag labas ung CO ng refusal sa visa nyo my email po ba cya sa inyo?

alphadog · October 2013

@apc

oo nga e, sobra strict nila, di ko akalain na disadvantage sa akin dahil employed ako sa family business

alphadog · October 2013

@rachelle_gan2

wala sya email before naglabas ng decision. 1st email nya was to ask for additional documents. 2nd email nya decision na. 2 months after ng site visit lumabas yung decision.

rachelle_gan2 · October 2013

Anong docs ung hiningi sau? kasi parang weired naman na ganon kaagad ung decision.. Klan nyo po na lodge ung visa nyo? baka ok lang e share samin ung timeline mo para my reference lang..

Sana makapag appeal kapa. Para mahabol ung decision..

KualaKangaroo · October 2013

@alphadog I am not aware kung onshore lang ung MRT. pero since sabi mo may nakalagay pwede ka mag appeal that means possible since alam nman ng Co mo san ka. Cgro best is to search for a lawyer mas ok cgro yung naka handle na ng same situation as yours. May mga lawyers from Ph or onshore mismo sa Au.

alphadog · October 2013

@rachelle_gan2

nag lodge ako ng EOI june 10, CO assigned July 23, Site visit August 14, Decision October 15.

additional documents na hiningi nya is additional payslips, org chart, certificate of employment, taxation documents.

honestly feeling ko minalas lang sa CO, may mga nabasa kasi ako sa ibang forum na yung CO namin hindi masyado helpful. kasi may mga ibang CO na nag co-confirm pag natanggap na nila additional documents na hiningi nila and sumasagot sa email pag may tinanong ka. pero sa forum yung CO daw namin hindi nag re-reply.

sana nga ma appeal ko pa, pero alam ko kasi sa MRT pang onshore applicants lang ang pwede mag appeal, pag off shore, sponsor dapat ang mag appeal para sa amin.

alphadog · October 2013

@KualaKangaroo

hi. nag research ako, appeal thru MRT pwede lang pag onshore, pag off shore sponsor ko lang ang pwede mag appeal para sa akin. unfortunately nabasa ko sa ACT website, hindi sila mag a-appeal pag na refuse ng DIAC ang visa application.

ngayon, nagta-try ako maghanap ng MARA agent na magaling sa ganitong situation.

nakaka-frustrate lang na ang reason ko for refusal is more of shop manager/business owner daw ako (as per CO). positive naman assessment ko for hr adviser sa vetassess.

pissedball · October 2013

Hi Alphadog,

My sympathy on your visa refusal.

I'd like to highlight some points how your case officer came up with unfavorable result.

VETASSES is just an assessing body which gives an impartial opinion about the suitability of the occupation you nominated with based on the documents you submitted. DIAC is only the sole agency to validate and even contradict the opinion released by any assessing bodies.

DIAC's case officers don't refuse applicants that easily. They have the so called "Invitation to Comment" where you can rectify any issues that have previously misunderstood, misled, or misinterpreted carried out by all parties involved.

When the Case Officer asked you if:

"You could honestly say that 99% of your day is spent doing hr tasks..."

"You perform , legislation, collective agreement..."

You should have answered YES as those were actually the major tasks of your nominated occupation. A confirmatory answer will satisfy the condition that you really are the HR adviser of your husband's company. If more arguments are to follow, you must stick on HR adviser's job description only.

MRT is not available to 190 applicants. However, you must consult migration lawyer for other options and to provide you a definite realistic advice.

My 2 cents in.

lock_code2004 · October 2013

@alphadog - meron pong mga lawyer at mara advertisement dito sa forum..
enquire with them about your case... goodluck po..

@pissedball - OT.. did you change your user name?
parang familiar ang tagline/quote sa timeline mo..

pissedball · October 2013

Hi Lock_code2004,

Yup, ako si ako hahahaha. Nakalimutan ko ang PW ko kaya nag-create ng bago. So nasa Perth kana pala and already working. Congrats! Parang kelan lng noh? ang kukulit natin dito sa forum. Hahahah.