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General Skilled Immigration Visa - Step By Step Process

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Comments

  • RheaMARN1171933RheaMARN1171933 Posts: 2,764Member, Administrator, Moderator
    Joined: Mar 10, 2016
    @pprmint08 yup, they’re your dependents
  • maclaudoa28maclaudoa28 Australia
    Posts: 16Member
    Joined: Mar 11, 2019
    @RheaMARN1171933 Thank you so much po. God bless you po.
  • maclaudoa28maclaudoa28 Australia
    Posts: 16Member
    Joined: Mar 11, 2019
    asking for a friend na rin po, may concern lang po sya, kasi nasubmit na po nya form 80 nya and under employment po, nilagay nya is from november 2010- april 2018 - employed po sya. pero po, from november 2010-feb 2011 po kasi volunteer nurse sya, hindi po nya inindicate doon, sinama nya po dun sa nov 2010-april 2018 employment years nya. pero ang kiniclaim lang po nya na points sa experiece ay ung paid experience nya which is from march 2011-april 2018. kailngan pa daw po ba nya mag submit ng evidence like certificate na volunteer sya from nov 2010-feb 2011? baka daw po maquestion sya kasi nakalagay po sa certificate of employement kung kelan lng po sya naregular. thank you po sa mga sasagot.
  • timbangerstimbangers Melbourne
    Posts: 43Member
    Joined: Dec 26, 2017
    Hi everyone. Nagsubmit ako ng application ko and nagbayad na ako last 03 Jan 2019, nakalagay is 6-7 months ang wait time. Anyone seeing the same time range sa application nila? 189 yung inapplyan ko pala. Thanks!
  • lecialecia Posts: 1,841Member
    Joined: Nov 06, 2016
    @timbangers yep same as mine 6-7 mos pEro na Feb ako naglodge. Case to case basis din. Pag complete Ang nasubmit na docs needed At satisfied Ang CO na naghahandle Ng case mo, direct grant kagad.

    Seeing from the trend, they grant the visa around 3-4 mos. check mo sa December 2018 thread na batch. Halos DG sila. Keep praying next month na sayo! Lapit na, kapit lang!

    "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15

    08/09/2017 - passed Australian Medical Scientist exam
    27/10/2017 - PTE LRSW- 77/80/75/85
    2018- got promoted, new job responsibilities,stop muna ang AUSSIE DREAM
    25/09/2018- PTE LRSW- 70/82/90/70 ( technical, ayaw magmove ng mouse ko sa listening, 2 WFD diko nasagot, submitted report\complain pero wala din)
    17/10/2018- PTE LRSW- 84/77/90/84
    09/02/2019- PTE LRSW- 83/82/90/85
    10/02/2019 -EOI lodge 75 (189) 80 (190)
    11/02/2019 - ITA received 189 ( 75 points)
    12/02/2019 - NSW ITA received 190 ( 80 points)
    19/02/2019 - SG PCC released
    20/02/2019 - Medical at SATA Ang Mo Kio @6-9 pm night clinic
    23/02/2019 - Visa lodged 189
    06/03/2019 - NBI provided ( umuwi ako Pinas kasi sa online Last name ni husband nag aapear, di pa ako nagchange ng married name ko kaya gusto ko kapareho nun passport at iba pang docs ko. Pag sa Pinas, pinakita ko lang passport ko at yun nirelease nila.

  • timbangerstimbangers Melbourne
    Posts: 43Member
    Joined: Dec 26, 2017
    @lecia okay thanks! Hoping and praying for you as well. :)
  • RheaMARN1171933RheaMARN1171933 Posts: 2,764Member, Administrator, Moderator
    Joined: Mar 10, 2016
    @timbangers that’s the standard timeline so everyone will receive the same message
  • mommyniarjenmommyniarjen Singapore
    Posts: 8Member
    Joined: Aug 06, 2014
    Hi. Question naman po regarding COE. Years ago kse I prepared yung mga documents for Oz migration. But for some reason tinigil ko and now I am planning na ituloy ulit. Yung COE po ba na pirmado ng ex-colleague ko is valid pa rin? I worry ko kse is yung contact # na nilagay niya is not reachable na. Magkaka-issue kaya yun sa CO pag nag-submit ako ng docs? Salamat sa tulong.

    Systems Administrator (ANZSCO: 262113)
    24 March 2015: IELTS Results L: 6.5 R: 7.0 S/W: 8.0
    14 July 2015: Lodged ACS for System Analyst
    17 July 2015: ACS replied that System Analyst is NOT closely related to my skills
    12 August 2015: Requested ACS to review my skills as System Administrator
    13 August 2015: ACS suitable (To God be the glory!)

  • RheaMARN1171933RheaMARN1171933 Posts: 2,764Member, Administrator, Moderator
    Joined: Mar 10, 2016
    @mommyniarjen it should be fine as long as contact details remain the same
  • nrekramnrekram Philippines
    Posts: 42Member
    Joined: Dec 02, 2018
    edited March 2019
    Hi. Ano po best advice for CDR making for EA?
    Is it safe to seek a CDR writing services or make my own words nlang?

    Coz I started to write mine, di ako confident kasi kulang ang content, di ako sure if pwde mag dagdag ng mga tasks details which i havent done before. I dont wnt to demo something i havent encountered in my career as CE like in the formal designing of buildings coz i am more on consulting inspection related tasks.

    Hope someone can guide me. TIA
  • RheaMARN1171933RheaMARN1171933 Posts: 2,764Member, Administrator, Moderator
    Joined: Mar 10, 2016
    @nrekram I always advice clients to use own words. There’s danger when you delegate such task to a third party. How sure are you they didn’t copy and paste nor use wordings/format from previous work they’ve done. Don't risk it. EA I s very strict and won’t even hesitate to reject your application if they find out you’re guilty of plagiarism.
  • joy.0491joy.0491 Manila
    Posts: 38Member
    Joined: Mar 15, 2019
    Possible pa din po bang mainvite if ang points ay 65 or 70?
  • lecialecia Posts: 1,841Member
    Joined: Nov 06, 2016
    @joy.0491 yes possible naman po. Pero depende sa occupation, please check Iscah for estimated ITA ayun sa points at occupation mo. According sa DHA as of Feb 11 na post, Yung last na EOI invited na 70 points was lodged November 2018.

    Pwde pa ba Ma increase Ang points? If so, try to esp sa language, kung kya Ma superior, go! The higher the points, the closer to the invites!

    "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15

    08/09/2017 - passed Australian Medical Scientist exam
    27/10/2017 - PTE LRSW- 77/80/75/85
    2018- got promoted, new job responsibilities,stop muna ang AUSSIE DREAM
    25/09/2018- PTE LRSW- 70/82/90/70 ( technical, ayaw magmove ng mouse ko sa listening, 2 WFD diko nasagot, submitted report\complain pero wala din)
    17/10/2018- PTE LRSW- 84/77/90/84
    09/02/2019- PTE LRSW- 83/82/90/85
    10/02/2019 -EOI lodge 75 (189) 80 (190)
    11/02/2019 - ITA received 189 ( 75 points)
    12/02/2019 - NSW ITA received 190 ( 80 points)
    19/02/2019 - SG PCC released
    20/02/2019 - Medical at SATA Ang Mo Kio @6-9 pm night clinic
    23/02/2019 - Visa lodged 189
    06/03/2019 - NBI provided ( umuwi ako Pinas kasi sa online Last name ni husband nag aapear, di pa ako nagchange ng married name ko kaya gusto ko kapareho nun passport at iba pang docs ko. Pag sa Pinas, pinakita ko lang passport ko at yun nirelease nila.

  • mommyniarjenmommyniarjen Singapore
    Posts: 8Member
    Joined: Aug 06, 2014
    @RheaMARN1171933 Thank you. So I need to confirm pala if same pa rin ang mobile number na nilagay niya.

    Systems Administrator (ANZSCO: 262113)
    24 March 2015: IELTS Results L: 6.5 R: 7.0 S/W: 8.0
    14 July 2015: Lodged ACS for System Analyst
    17 July 2015: ACS replied that System Analyst is NOT closely related to my skills
    12 August 2015: Requested ACS to review my skills as System Administrator
    13 August 2015: ACS suitable (To God be the glory!)

  • vincenthernandezvincenthernandez Singapore
    Posts: 68Member
    Joined: Mar 10, 2019
    Question po,sa SkillSelect ba automatic macredit yung points kapag nadetect nya na nagincrease points nya?Mag 5 years kase ako na work experience,iniisip ko baka may kelangan pa assessment ule kase last year pa yun assessment ko
  • RheaMARN1171933RheaMARN1171933 Posts: 2,764Member, Administrator, Moderator
    Joined: Mar 10, 2016
    @mommyniarjen I tell my clients to provide an office number rather than a mobile number.
  • pprmint08pprmint08 UAE
    Posts: 66Member
    Joined: Oct 04, 2018
    Enough na po ba ang PNP Police clearance or pati po NBI Clearance?

    Total points: 75
    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15
    ANZSCO: 234611
    Primary applicant with spouse and child

    Oct 2018 - IELTS exam with Scores: L9 R9 W6.5 S6.5
    November 2018 - Assessed as AIMS Medical Laboratory Technician
    December 2018 - Application for AIMS Medical Scientist Exam
    March 2019 - Exam for AIMS Medical Scientist
    May 2019 - passed AIMS Medical Scientist Exam
    June 2019 - PTE exam with scores L90 R90 W90 S90
    July 2019 - submitted EOI for 189
    August 2019 - submitted EOI for 190 NSW
    September 2019 - submitted EOI for 190 SA
    October 2019 -received Invitation to apply for 190 SA
    November 2019 - Medicals
    November 12, 2019 - lodged 190 visa application
    February 19, 2020 - Visa grant

  • lecialecia Posts: 1,841Member
    Joined: Nov 06, 2016
    @pprmint08 NBI clearance Po Ang need .Pag nagstay ka sa ibang bansa Ng more than 12 mos, need din Ang Police Clerance sa bansang yun.

    "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15

    08/09/2017 - passed Australian Medical Scientist exam
    27/10/2017 - PTE LRSW- 77/80/75/85
    2018- got promoted, new job responsibilities,stop muna ang AUSSIE DREAM
    25/09/2018- PTE LRSW- 70/82/90/70 ( technical, ayaw magmove ng mouse ko sa listening, 2 WFD diko nasagot, submitted report\complain pero wala din)
    17/10/2018- PTE LRSW- 84/77/90/84
    09/02/2019- PTE LRSW- 83/82/90/85
    10/02/2019 -EOI lodge 75 (189) 80 (190)
    11/02/2019 - ITA received 189 ( 75 points)
    12/02/2019 - NSW ITA received 190 ( 80 points)
    19/02/2019 - SG PCC released
    20/02/2019 - Medical at SATA Ang Mo Kio @6-9 pm night clinic
    23/02/2019 - Visa lodged 189
    06/03/2019 - NBI provided ( umuwi ako Pinas kasi sa online Last name ni husband nag aapear, di pa ako nagchange ng married name ko kaya gusto ko kapareho nun passport at iba pang docs ko. Pag sa Pinas, pinakita ko lang passport ko at yun nirelease nila.

  • pprmint08pprmint08 UAE
    Posts: 66Member
    Joined: Oct 04, 2018
    Maam Lecia, so NBI Clearance lang po ang kukuhain sa Pinas?

    Total points: 75
    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15
    ANZSCO: 234611
    Primary applicant with spouse and child

    Oct 2018 - IELTS exam with Scores: L9 R9 W6.5 S6.5
    November 2018 - Assessed as AIMS Medical Laboratory Technician
    December 2018 - Application for AIMS Medical Scientist Exam
    March 2019 - Exam for AIMS Medical Scientist
    May 2019 - passed AIMS Medical Scientist Exam
    June 2019 - PTE exam with scores L90 R90 W90 S90
    July 2019 - submitted EOI for 189
    August 2019 - submitted EOI for 190 NSW
    September 2019 - submitted EOI for 190 SA
    October 2019 -received Invitation to apply for 190 SA
    November 2019 - Medicals
    November 12, 2019 - lodged 190 visa application
    February 19, 2020 - Visa grant

  • ms_anems_ane Victoria, Australia
    Posts: 1,133Member
    Joined: Jan 14, 2018
    @pprmint08 yup (sasabat na ko hehe baka busy si sis lecia) - NBI Clearance ang accepted. Medyo naka confuse lang in terms of seeing the “police clearance” ano - pero kasi for other countries - Police Clearance talaga ang name for this document (example here in SG - SG Police Clearance sya)

    Nagkataon lang na for Pinas, may police clearance din tayo, pati barangay clearance lol.

    NBI clearance kasi is mas general, unlike police clearance sa pinas - parang depende lang san ka nakatira. And if you’ve been an ofw sa uae for quite some time na, ang NBI clearance now is isa nalang ang category - yung Multi Purpose Clearance - unlike before na depende pa per country ng applyan. :)

    If you have more questions post ka lang :)

    ANZSCO 233511 | Industrial Engineer | Age : 25 , Education: 15, Experience: 15, PTE: 20| 75 Points

    12.10.2016 | IELTS L 7.5 R 8.0 W 7.0 S 7.5
    03.23.2018 | Lodged EA Assessment
    05.29.2018 | EA Result : POSITIVE
    06.20.2018 | EOI 189 65 points
    07.20.2018 | PTE-A |LRSW|78/77/85/86|
    08.10.2018 | PTE-A |LRSW|75/72/75/81| - PTE Reported Technical Glitch
    09.27.2018 | PTE-A |LRSW|84/82/82/89| - SUPERIOR
    09.29.2018 | EOI 189 75 points (updated)
    10.11.2018 | 189 Invitation Received.
    10.29.2018 | Singapore COC issued
    11.15.2018 | NBI Clearance Issued
    12.07.2018 | Visa Lodgement
    12.22.2018 | Medicals
    1.3.2019 | Health Clearance Provided - No Actions Required
    2.05.2019 | ImmiAccount Tech confirmed there is system glitch
    in our Health Assessment Page in Skilled Migration Visa Application
    2.05.2019 | Attached supporting documents in our application regarding this glitch.
    3.15.2019 | CO Contact - Requesting for Medicals ( this is the result of the system glitch)
    3.18.2019 | Responded to CO Contact
    3.29.2019 | Feedback sent
    4.08.2019 | Visa Grant. To God Be The Glory!! :)

  • lecialecia Posts: 1,841Member
    Joined: Nov 06, 2016
    @pprmint08 yes NBI Lang. Thank you @ms_ane sa very detailed explanation, madami makakabenefit nito.. lapit na grant mo! Konti na Lang pag antay, lapit Lang sis!

    "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15

    08/09/2017 - passed Australian Medical Scientist exam
    27/10/2017 - PTE LRSW- 77/80/75/85
    2018- got promoted, new job responsibilities,stop muna ang AUSSIE DREAM
    25/09/2018- PTE LRSW- 70/82/90/70 ( technical, ayaw magmove ng mouse ko sa listening, 2 WFD diko nasagot, submitted report\complain pero wala din)
    17/10/2018- PTE LRSW- 84/77/90/84
    09/02/2019- PTE LRSW- 83/82/90/85
    10/02/2019 -EOI lodge 75 (189) 80 (190)
    11/02/2019 - ITA received 189 ( 75 points)
    12/02/2019 - NSW ITA received 190 ( 80 points)
    19/02/2019 - SG PCC released
    20/02/2019 - Medical at SATA Ang Mo Kio @6-9 pm night clinic
    23/02/2019 - Visa lodged 189
    06/03/2019 - NBI provided ( umuwi ako Pinas kasi sa online Last name ni husband nag aapear, di pa ako nagchange ng married name ko kaya gusto ko kapareho nun passport at iba pang docs ko. Pag sa Pinas, pinakita ko lang passport ko at yun nirelease nila.

  • edgeedge Philippines
    Posts: 279Member
    Joined: Jan 16, 2019
    Halooo.. Question if ung police clearance ko na ipinasa sa visa app is paexpire na kasi 6months lang validity nya tpos if kukuha ako ulit pra makapagattach ng valid na police clearance before magkagrant ok lang ba un?

    Jan. 22, 2019 - 1st PTE-A Exam at Trident
    Jan. 29, 2019 - Results: L-90, R-87, S-90, W-86 (Superior)
    March 11, 2019 - Applied for CPAA Assessment
    March 14, 2019 - CPAA Contact for additional document
    April 4, 2019 - Received CPAA positive academic assessment for nominated occupation 221111 General Accountant. To resend colored scanned employment reference letters for skilled employment assessment of CPAA.
    April 29, 2019 - Received CPAA positive skilled employment assessment. All working years considered by CPAA.
    May 1, 2019 - Lodged 189/190/489 visas. 75/80/85

    ......Waiting Game.......

  • lecialecia Posts: 1,841Member
    Joined: Nov 06, 2016
    @edge kelan naglodge yan? Naka state Po ba na 6 mos Lang? Baka sakaling Ma grant ka na kagad bago sya mag expire, mapapaaga Ang initial entry mo nyan, before Ng expiration nyan.. Kung feeling mo maabutan ka Ng expiry before ka Ma grant, attach ka na Ng new.. saan bansa Po Ang 6 mos expiration Lang?

    "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15

    08/09/2017 - passed Australian Medical Scientist exam
    27/10/2017 - PTE LRSW- 77/80/75/85
    2018- got promoted, new job responsibilities,stop muna ang AUSSIE DREAM
    25/09/2018- PTE LRSW- 70/82/90/70 ( technical, ayaw magmove ng mouse ko sa listening, 2 WFD diko nasagot, submitted report\complain pero wala din)
    17/10/2018- PTE LRSW- 84/77/90/84
    09/02/2019- PTE LRSW- 83/82/90/85
    10/02/2019 -EOI lodge 75 (189) 80 (190)
    11/02/2019 - ITA received 189 ( 75 points)
    12/02/2019 - NSW ITA received 190 ( 80 points)
    19/02/2019 - SG PCC released
    20/02/2019 - Medical at SATA Ang Mo Kio @6-9 pm night clinic
    23/02/2019 - Visa lodged 189
    06/03/2019 - NBI provided ( umuwi ako Pinas kasi sa online Last name ni husband nag aapear, di pa ako nagchange ng married name ko kaya gusto ko kapareho nun passport at iba pang docs ko. Pag sa Pinas, pinakita ko lang passport ko at yun nirelease nila.

  • edgeedge Philippines
    Posts: 279Member
    Joined: Jan 16, 2019
    @lecia Malaysia.... walang nakastate dun sa doc kung ilan months ung validity pero dun sa nababasa ko sa net at may isa dito sa forum na kumuha dn at 6months daw ang validity.... Thank you sa advice, tama ka bro magattach na lang ako bago before maggrant visa at magexpire yung clearance :)

    Jan. 22, 2019 - 1st PTE-A Exam at Trident
    Jan. 29, 2019 - Results: L-90, R-87, S-90, W-86 (Superior)
    March 11, 2019 - Applied for CPAA Assessment
    March 14, 2019 - CPAA Contact for additional document
    April 4, 2019 - Received CPAA positive academic assessment for nominated occupation 221111 General Accountant. To resend colored scanned employment reference letters for skilled employment assessment of CPAA.
    April 29, 2019 - Received CPAA positive skilled employment assessment. All working years considered by CPAA.
    May 1, 2019 - Lodged 189/190/489 visas. 75/80/85

    ......Waiting Game.......

  • edgeedge Philippines
    Posts: 279Member
    Joined: Jan 16, 2019
    @lecia hmmmmm pero ill ask na lang ung malaysian embassy hahaha may iba kasing forum na sabi 12months valid nman daw.... better na ill ask them na lang hehe, Thanks :)

    Jan. 22, 2019 - 1st PTE-A Exam at Trident
    Jan. 29, 2019 - Results: L-90, R-87, S-90, W-86 (Superior)
    March 11, 2019 - Applied for CPAA Assessment
    March 14, 2019 - CPAA Contact for additional document
    April 4, 2019 - Received CPAA positive academic assessment for nominated occupation 221111 General Accountant. To resend colored scanned employment reference letters for skilled employment assessment of CPAA.
    April 29, 2019 - Received CPAA positive skilled employment assessment. All working years considered by CPAA.
    May 1, 2019 - Lodged 189/190/489 visas. 75/80/85

    ......Waiting Game.......

  • lecialecia Posts: 1,841Member
    Joined: Nov 06, 2016
    @edge oo usually Po ksi one year talaga Ang PCC. Nag ask ko Kay Mr Google, sabi nya one year! Pasok ka! Attach ako pic. ;)

    "For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future"

    Age: 25 Language: 20 Experience: 15 Education: 15

    08/09/2017 - passed Australian Medical Scientist exam
    27/10/2017 - PTE LRSW- 77/80/75/85
    2018- got promoted, new job responsibilities,stop muna ang AUSSIE DREAM
    25/09/2018- PTE LRSW- 70/82/90/70 ( technical, ayaw magmove ng mouse ko sa listening, 2 WFD diko nasagot, submitted report\complain pero wala din)
    17/10/2018- PTE LRSW- 84/77/90/84
    09/02/2019- PTE LRSW- 83/82/90/85
    10/02/2019 -EOI lodge 75 (189) 80 (190)
    11/02/2019 - ITA received 189 ( 75 points)
    12/02/2019 - NSW ITA received 190 ( 80 points)
    19/02/2019 - SG PCC released
    20/02/2019 - Medical at SATA Ang Mo Kio @6-9 pm night clinic
    23/02/2019 - Visa lodged 189
    06/03/2019 - NBI provided ( umuwi ako Pinas kasi sa online Last name ni husband nag aapear, di pa ako nagchange ng married name ko kaya gusto ko kapareho nun passport at iba pang docs ko. Pag sa Pinas, pinakita ko lang passport ko at yun nirelease nila.

  • edgeedge Philippines
    Posts: 279Member
    Joined: Jan 16, 2019
    @lecia Thank you! Salamat sa info :D

    Jan. 22, 2019 - 1st PTE-A Exam at Trident
    Jan. 29, 2019 - Results: L-90, R-87, S-90, W-86 (Superior)
    March 11, 2019 - Applied for CPAA Assessment
    March 14, 2019 - CPAA Contact for additional document
    April 4, 2019 - Received CPAA positive academic assessment for nominated occupation 221111 General Accountant. To resend colored scanned employment reference letters for skilled employment assessment of CPAA.
    April 29, 2019 - Received CPAA positive skilled employment assessment. All working years considered by CPAA.
    May 1, 2019 - Lodged 189/190/489 visas. 75/80/85

    ......Waiting Game.......

  • gandaragandara Philippines
    Posts: 98Member
    Joined: Jun 27, 2018
    Ask ko lng po, meron n b na-invite dito n mechanical engr 65+5 for visa class 190?kc kme august 2018 p until now wla p kme pre-invite n nkukuha...thanks
  • magueromaguero Adelaide
    Posts: 831Member
    Joined: Oct 24, 2016
    @gandara Saang state yung target nyo sa EOI?
  • marchbabymarchbaby Sydney
    Posts: 177Member
    Joined: Aug 29, 2015
    baka po may makatulong o may similar case. Yung partner ko po yung Uni nia back overseas under Section 2. Graduate xa ng Bachelor of Electronics and Electrical Engineering (EEE). Nung pag punta niya po dito nung 2015 nagpaassess xa and Engineers Australia assess it as Bachelors equivalent to AQF pero sa Occupation na nakaindicate sa certificate Associate Level. Kahapon pumunta kami sa Migration agent at iniinsist ng agent na ndi nia makukuha yung 15 points sa Bachelor kasi Section 2 yung university. Hindi pang namin maintindihan kasi yung certificate na galing na sa Engineers Aus Bachelor Degree xa thought expired na yun. so automatic po ba na pag Section 2, ndi na makeclaim yung 15points?

    Salamat po sa magcontribute ng opinion nla.

    Life's Little Instruction 1490: "Remember that nothing important was ever achieved without someone's taking a chance."-H. Jackson Brown Jr.

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