Negative Assessment

Buncs · August 2019

Good day to all.
I want to share my experience in applying for Skills Assessment.

Nominated Occupation: Quality Assurance Manager (ANZSCO Code: 139914)
Assessing Body: VETASSESS

I am a Quality Control Engineer working in Dubai for 12 years. The company I'm working for is engaged in the manufacture and fabrication of aluminium and steel roofing and cladding building systems including provision of associated fitting and accessories AND manufacture of fire retardant insulated panels and accessories.

I opted for the above occupation since I deemed it near/related to my work experience even though I am not a manager. I got a NEGATIVE skills assessment outcome from VETASSESS stating that "there was no evidence to demonstrate that you were responsible for the development or determination of such quality processes across the company at managerial level. Therefore, your tasks performed cannot be considered relevant to the nominated occupation as described in ANZSCO. A negative outcome has been determined on this basis."

Questions I would like to ask are the following:
1. Did I make the wrong choice in applying for the said occupation?
2. Considering my experience in the field of QA/QC, what would be the suitable occupation that I should apply for?
3. Should I opt for another occupation, can I go for another assessment either on the same assessing body or another (i.e. EA)?
4. Should I continue applying on my own or should I seek an immigration agent?
5. Should I continue applying at all or end my journey going to OZ?

Thanks for those who will reply.

fgs · August 2019

The use of "Manager" is very risky. When you use that title, make sure the job description you submit shows that you have overall control of that department. I have a friend who is a hotel duty manager and nominated Hotel Manager for assessment and also got a negative result citing he dont have control over housekeeping etc.
Review the job description of the job u are nominating and make sure your experience is closely related. Keep trying, an immigration agent doesnt do much to improve your chances..do thorough reading and make sure supply as much docs. Check your nominated occupation at www.anzscosearch.com.au

fgs · August 2019

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imau · August 2019

@Buncs totoo po yan sir. agree ako ky @fgs ung asawa ko Senior Design Manager pero ang inapplyan nmin Interior Designer.

We had 2 options po Arch’l Designer sk Interior Designer (archi grad) po. ang adviced ng mga friends namin n ns Au na, hindi yan sa paprestigan o pabonggahan ng job mo. kundi kung pano mo mamemeet ung description ng anzsco sa selected job code mo, at kug pabo k mkkpasok na ang target sana e PR o kht hnd. sila rin arch’l draftsman sk id ngsiapply. kc pgdtng nmn po dun pede knmn mgapply ng senior level kung my avail.

kaya binaba po namin ung occupation. advice dn nl laruin ung work ref (job description mo na dikit nga s desc nl). Ako po nagdraft tas pinapirma nmin sa mga boss nya.

sana po naktulong.

Buncs · August 2019

Salamat po @fgs and @imau.

Since I supplied all my docs in all honesty to VETASSESS (meaning wala akong dinaya/dinagdag/binawas),
sakaling mag nominate ako ng bagong occupation sa ibang assessing body, di kaya malaman nila na "uy! nakapag pa assess na ito sa VETASSESS ah!" Di ba inter related ang mga assessing body sa OZ?

Mataas siguro ang tinarget kong occupation. Maaaring kulang din ang mga evidences na kahit di yun ang job title ko eh kaya kong gampanan ang mga tungkulin ng isang manager.

Anyway, going back, i'm planning to re-apply for a Production or Plant Engineer to be assessed by Engineers Australia (EA). Sa pagkakaunawa ko, mas madugo yun since kelangan mag provide ng Career Episodes.

Salamat pong muli sa mga nag comment.

fgs · August 2019

@Buncs
It doesnt matter magpaassess ka sa iba. Pwede nga din same assessing body but different occupation.Your goal now is to get positive skills assessment. Dont bother sa job title. It doesnt mean na yan lang pwede mo applyan na job here. Employers will not look at your skills assessment kundi sa experience na nasa resume. Alam na man natin kaya natin gawin kahit ano work but the assessing body will just look kung ano nasa docs na isusubmit mo.

fgs · August 2019

Baka may makita ka na QA related din na hindi manager. Just do a thorough comparison ng job description(anzscosearch.com.au) vs your current job description..goodluck

Buncs · August 2019

Salamat @fgs!

Currently looking for another occupation.
Also contemplating to get the services of an immigration agent.
Pero heartbreaking talaga nung makita kong NEGATIVE ang result ng assessment.
Parte siguro talaga ng buhay yun.

Buncs · August 2019

Question po, pahabol.
If ever I nominate another occupation to be assessed (again) by VETASSESS, will there be a conflict knowing that you already submitted all your docs for that negatively assessed occupation and here you are applying for another occupation?

fgs · August 2019

@Buncs
I guess its not an issue..Try and try..walang mangyayari kung suko na agad.

twenty1 · August 2019

@Buncs said:

Questions I would like to ask are the following:
1. Did I make the wrong choice in applying for the said occupation?
2. Considering my experience in the field of QA/QC, what would be the suitable occupation that I should apply for?
3. Should I opt for another occupation, can I go for another assessment either on the same assessing body or another (i.e. EA)?
4. Should I continue applying on my own or should I seek an immigration agent?
5. Should I continue applying at all or end my journey going to OZ?

Thanks for those who will reply.

Yes, manager and engineer are two different categories of engineering based on EA. Note: A Project Manager or Project Engineer is not considered an Engineering Manager; but rather is considered as working as an engineering professional.
IMO, if you're a college engineering graduate and a registered engineer in Phil, opt for that occupational skill. For example, my experience is a Piping Engineer and went through skill assessment in EA as a Professional Engineer. Applied for ANZSCO 233512 - Mechanical Engineer.
Yes, as pointed out in item 1 and yes, try EA.
Most of the aspiring immigrants here are hands-on in their visa applications. Migration agent is another option if you have $$$ to spent.
Continue to apply and don't lose hope....and pray, lots of it. Ask questions, everyone here are willing to help each other. We're on the same boat before.

RheaMARN1171933 · August 2019

> @Buncs said:
> Salamat @fgs!
>
> Currently looking for another occupation.
> Also contemplating to get the services of an immigration agent.
> Pero heartbreaking talaga nung makita kong NEGATIVE ang result ng assessment.
> Parte siguro talaga ng buhay yun.

Just saw this thread. Sorry to hear about your experience. That was definitely a painful lesson learned. It’s safer to use an occupation lower than something higher than your level. This could definitely be avoided with proper guidance. Don’t want to sound like I’m selling my services but I strongly suggest you consult an expert (any qualified one by all means)to avoid further unnecessary spending. DIY can save you money if done properly but will cost you a lot if proper research was not done. You would have probably spent less and less headache too if you would have engaged an agent from the start.

Anyway, don’t lose hope as your journey continues. All the best.

Buncs · August 2019

@twenty1 said:

@Buncs said:

Questions I would like to ask are the following:
1. Did I make the wrong choice in applying for the said occupation?
2. Considering my experience in the field of QA/QC, what would be the suitable occupation that I should apply for?
3. Should I opt for another occupation, can I go for another assessment either on the same assessing body or another (i.e. EA)?
4. Should I continue applying on my own or should I seek an immigration agent?
5. Should I continue applying at all or end my journey going to OZ?

Thanks for those who will reply.

Yes, manager and engineer are two different categories of engineering based on EA. Note: A Project Manager or Project Engineer is not considered an Engineering Manager; but rather is considered as working as an engineering professional. - Noted.

IMO, if you're a college engineering graduate and a registered engineer in Phil, opt for that occupational skill. For example, my experience is a Piping Engineer and went through skill assessment in EA as a Professional Engineer. Applied for ANZSCO 233512 - Mechanical Engineer. - I'm an ECE graduate. As pointed out in the outcome letter, "Field of study ELectronics and Communications Engineering is not highly relevant.

Yes, as pointed out in item 1 and yes, try EA. - Choosing between the following: 224712 Organisation and Methods Analyst (Procedures Analyst / Quality Auditor) OR Production or Plant Engineer. The 1st option to be assessed by VETASSESS. The 2nd option by EA.

Most of the aspiring immigrants here are hands-on in their visa applications. Migration agent is another option if you have $$$ to spent. - Before I applied on my own, we were actually opting for the services of an agent by I decided otherwise. Now, having a NEGATIVE assessment outcome, i'm leaning more to getting the services of an agent rather than fail again dahil lang sa mali o kulang ang pagkakaintindi ko sa nakasaad sa website ng assessing bodies.

Continue to apply and don't lose hope....and pray, lots of it. Ask questions, everyone here are willing to help each other. We're on the same boat before. - Yes, I do pray. Pero di ko maiwasang ma disheartened because of this. Also, di rin biro maglabas ng 1480AUD for priority assessment.

Thanks for the reply @twenty1!!!

Buncs · August 2019

Thanks for the reply @RheaMARN1171933.

Before I started self application, I actually asked my friends who are already in OZ.
My mistake is I thought that kung ano ang ginawa nila at kung ano ang kinahinatnan ng ginawa nila, yun din ang mangyayari sa akin.
Hindi ko na consider na iba ang course nila sa akin at iba ng job title/description/experience nila sa akin.
"Madali lang yan. Intindihin mo lang maige kung ano mga requirements na hinihingi nila."
And so I did, but failed.
Lesson learned.
Itutuloy ang labas. Sa tulong ninyo, hopefully, maging POSITIVE ang outcome sa susunod na try.
Salamat po uli sa mga nagbibigay ng payo.
Napakalaki po ng tulong ninyo sa akin at sa mga katulad kong nakakuha ng NEGATIVE assessment.

lecia · August 2019

@Buncs sorry to hear. Di bale bangon lng, nagkamali ka man may lesson naman na natutunan. Meron akong friend, visa denied, pero apply lng ulit. Sabi nga nya, things happened pero its not the end.

Claiming for a blessing sayo sa next steps mo. Keep that faith, visa grant din ang kahahantungan nyan. Laban lang! God bless 🙏🏻

RheaMARN1171933 · August 2019

> @Buncs said:
> Thanks for the reply @RheaMARN1171933.
>
> Before I started self application, I actually asked my friends who are already in OZ.
> My mistake is I thought that kung ano ang ginawa nila at kung ano ang kinahinatnan ng ginawa nila, yun din ang mangyayari sa akin.
> Hindi ko na consider na iba ang course nila sa akin at iba ng job title/description/experience nila sa akin.
> "Madali lang yan. Intindihin mo lang maige kung ano mga requirements na hinihingi nila."
> And so I did, but failed.
> Lesson learned.
> Itutuloy ang labas. Sa tulong ninyo, hopefully, maging POSITIVE ang outcome sa susunod na try.
> Salamat po uli sa mga nagbibigay ng payo.
> Napakalaki po ng tulong ninyo sa akin at sa mga katulad kong nakakuha ng NEGATIVE assessment.

That’s right, every journey is very individual. What worked on an individual may not work on the other one. Welcome all the advice but make you sure you do your own judgment as well.

Good luck

se29m · August 2019

Submit mo lang.. nag negative din ako sa vetassess kasi ayoko ma tag as engineer.. pero nung sa ea ako nagpasa umokay naman..

Buncs · August 2019

Thanks for the comment @se29m!!!

I don't know if i'm being rude by doing this.
I am seeking the advice of an immigration agent.
Kumbaga, sampol muna bago bili.
Sabi ko diretsahin ako kung ako ba ay qualified for immigration or not before I hire their services.
Nakapag try na kasi kami mag agent before pa Canada naman pero di nag progress.
Dahil sa nangyari, I can say na nadala or natrauma misis ko kaya naman nag try ako to apply on my own but got a negative assessment.
I want to retry for assessment and this time sa EA naman.
Actually, kelangan ko ng mag ga guide and give advice kung ano ang gagawin, ano mga ipo provide, etc.
Gagastos nga lang uli for assessment.

se29m · August 2019

@Buncs all the best.. eye on the prize lang lagi.. nastress din ako nung nag negative yung assessment ko sa vetassess.. buti na compose ko sarili ko after a month then nag pasa ako sa EA which after 10 days positive.. akala ko kasi di ako pang engineer pero sinwerte din siguro ako.. good luck and positive lang..

Buncs · August 2019

@se29m, will do.
Salamat sa pagpapalakas ng aking loob.
Medyo pahinga lang din muna sa gastos then babanat uli.
Duda pa rin ako kung may "laban" ako kasi napaka common ng position / work experience ko.

Supersaiyan · August 2019

@Buncs said:

@se29m, will do.
Salamat sa pagpapalakas ng aking loob.
Medyo pahinga lang din muna sa gastos then babanat uli.
Duda pa rin ako kung may "laban" ako kasi napaka common ng position / work experience ko.

Don't worry, kahit mababa yung nom. occupation mo compared sa position mo sa work, the bottomline is, ang laban tlga ay kung gaano kataas yung EOI points at kung mkakakuha ng ITA. God bless.

ms_ane · August 2019

> @Buncs said:
> @se29m, will do.
> Salamat sa pagpapalakas ng aking loob.
> Medyo pahinga lang din muna sa gastos then babanat uli.
> Duda pa rin ako kung may "laban" ako kasi napaka common ng position / work experience ko.

- pst wag ganyan. may laban yan syempre, unang una QA Engineer ka, tapos sa UAE pa. Wag ka panghinaan ng loob dahil sa nangyari. Isipin mo nalang na tunay na di tama ang napili mong occupation para sa current work mo. Meron yan na magtutugma at makikita mo maitatawid mo din yan.

Nasa pinaka umpisa ka pa lang ng laban, may mga susuungin ka pang sunod (language assessment, collection of docs), kaya importante na laban lang ok?

just.anotherguy · August 2019

@Buncs said:

@se29m, will do.
Salamat sa pagpapalakas ng aking loob.
Medyo pahinga lang din muna sa gastos then babanat uli.
Duda pa rin ako kung may "laban" ako kasi napaka common ng position / work experience ko.

Ang importante ay yung occupation mo ay nasa Skills Occupation List ng Australia. When it comes to lodging of documents for visa purposes, wala yan sa pagiging common or unique, taas or baba ng position. Kaya wag ka pang hinaan ng loob. Mali lang siguro yung unang napili mong occupation, kasi pag "manager" kelangan yung Certificate of Employment mo ay merong Title, duties and responsibilities ng isang manager.
Pag dating sa job hunting naman, pwede ka mag apply ng kahit anong trabaho dito dahil may right to live and work ka na (Kasi may visa 189/190/491 ka na). You can land any job as long as an employer hired you. Hindi kelangang related sa occupation na sinubmit mo sa Skills Asessment.

Edit: May mga restriction din ang 190/491, pero that's more about the location that you are eligible to live and work.

Buncs · August 2019

Andaming nag comment.
Salamat po ng marami @Supersaiyan, @ms_ane and @just.anotherguy!!!
Dami ng tumatakbo sa isip ko, to the point na di ako makapag concentrate sa trabaho at parang depressed na depressed ako to have received a negative assessment.
Long weekend (hopefully) dito sa Dubai. Imbes na mag enjoy, aralin ko na lang maige kung saan ako pupwede sa mga nominated occupation.
Hinahabol ko kasi ang panahon at tumatanda na. Turning 40 this Oct so bawas na agad ang points.
Sa totoo lang, kung ako lang, OK na ako dito sa Dubai pero kelangan gawin ito para sa mga bata.
Nagiging madrama na ang usapang ito.
Salamat po uli sa mga nagbibigay ng payo.
Sana po wag kayong magsawa.

RheaMARN1171933 · August 2019

> @Buncs said:
> Andaming nag comment.
> Salamat po ng marami @Supersaiyan, @ms_ane and @just.anotherguy!!!
> Dami ng tumatakbo sa isip ko, to the point na di ako makapag concentrate sa trabaho at parang depressed na depressed ako to have received a negative assessment.
> Long weekend (hopefully) dito sa Dubai. Imbes na mag enjoy, aralin ko na lang maige kung saan ako pupwede sa mga nominated occupation.
> Hinahabol ko kasi ang panahon at tumatanda na. Turning 40 this Oct so bawas na agad ang points.
> Sa totoo lang, kung ako lang, OK na ako dito sa Dubai pero kelangan gawin ito para sa mga bata.
> Nagiging madrama na ang usapang ito.
> Salamat po uli sa mga nagbibigay ng payo.
> Sana po wag kayong magsawa.

I know exactly how you feel, been through that journey more than 10 years ago. Back then confused na ako, wala pang forum like this before and it seemed like there was information overload already. I found myself staring on the ceiling trying to figure out what to do, laging tulala. I ended up getting an agent and was glad I did. She took the worry off me. The best way to look for a legit agent is through www.mara.gov.au

ms_ane · August 2019

@Buncs naintindihan namin ang pakiramdam na ginawa naman ang lahat pero nagkamali - isa yan sa mga downside ng DIY.
Patawarin mo ang sarili mo - yan ang unang step. Then sunod, tama sila na walang ibang makaka analyze maigi ng iyong current job versus nominated occupation kundi ikaw, pero kung gusto mo at para sa ikapapanatag ng loob mo, mag hire ka ng agent na tututok sa iyo in every step of the way. Sila ang mag checheck kung nasa tamang path na ikaw.
para mka sure ka reach out ka nalang kay Ms. Rhea

kesa mapunta ka pa sa olats na agent lalo lang malito.

Buncs · September 2019

Salamat po @ms_ane!!!

Buncs · September 2019

Update po about Negative Skills Assessment Outcome.

Nag reply po ang VETASSESS since humingi ako ng suggestion from them.
Below is their reply:

Dear [removed],
Thank you for your email regarding your recent VETASSESS Skills Assessment outcome.
In regards to your enquiry, I can offer the following information:

As stated in the explanation included on your outcome letter, applicants for the occupation of Quality Assurance Manager (ANZSCO Code 139914) are expected to demonstrate oversight across the development of quality procedures, processes and certifications at an organisation-wide level whilst in occupancy of a managerial level role. As evidence provided was sufficient to determine that your position as Quality Control Engineer was below this managerial level, primarily focused on implementation of quality procedures and audits at the behest of a Quality Manager, your employment did not meet the skill level required for this occupation. Therefore, tasks performed in this position cannot be considered relevant to the nominated occupation.

In response to your query about alternative occupations, there does not appear to be another VETASSESS occupation to suit your employment experience at this time. However, you are encouraged to further consult ANZSCO in order to determine if any occupations assessed by other assessment bodies would better suit your qualifications and employment experience.

Alternatively, if you think that the information provided to VETASSESS did not cover the full spectrum of your responsibilities or skill level, or if you believe your employment may indeed be classifiable under another VETASSESS occupation, then you may instead wish to apply for a Reassessment – Change of Occupation or Reassessment – Review of Negative Outcome. As part of the reassessment process, applicants are encouraged to provide any further documentation to support information already supplied in their initial application. Please see further details below:

Reassessment Options:
1. You can apply for a Reassessment - Review of a Negative Outcome. This is another assessment of your case by a new team of assessors who have not previously been involved in your case. You are able to submit any further evidence which supports your case for review of the outcome. Please bear in mind the assessment details in my explanation if you wish to have your case reviewed. You may apply online or complete a SRG02 Reassessment Request form and send via email to [email protected]
2. You can apply for a Reassessment - Change of Nominated Occupation if you feel that your qualifications and employment experience would meet the requirements of another occupation assessed by VETASSESS. You may apply online or complete a SRGO8 Change of Occupation Request form and send via email to [email protected]

To supply any additional evidence to support your reassessment application, you may do so by uploading documentation to your reassessment or attaching it to an email. Please note that further clarification of your employment may be required in the case of reassessment, and that there is no guarantee that you would receive a positive outcome for this or any other occupation. Before applying for any further assessment, please take note of the reason for the initial negative outcome as detailed on your outcome letter and this email.

I hope that the above information is of assistance to you. Please contact VETASSESS again via [email protected] should you have any further enquiries.

Regards,

Supersaiyan · September 2019

@Buncs said:
Update po about Negative Skills Assessment Outcome.

Nag reply po ang VETASSESS since humingi ako ng suggestion from them.
Below is their reply:

Dear [removed],
Thank you for your email regarding your recent VETASSESS Skills Assessment outcome.
In regards to your enquiry, I can offer the following information:

As stated in the explanation included on your outcome letter, applicants for the occupation of Quality Assurance Manager (ANZSCO Code 139914) are expected to demonstrate oversight across the development of quality procedures, processes and certifications at an organisation-wide level whilst in occupancy of a managerial level role. As evidence provided was sufficient to determine that your position as Quality Control Engineer was below this managerial level, primarily focused on implementation of quality procedures and audits at the behest of a Quality Manager, your employment did not meet the skill level required for this occupation. Therefore, tasks performed in this position cannot be considered relevant to the nominated occupation.

In response to your query about alternative occupations, there does not appear to be another VETASSESS occupation to suit your employment experience at this time. However, you are encouraged to further consult ANZSCO in order to determine if any occupations assessed by other assessment bodies would better suit your qualifications and employment experience.

Alternatively, if you think that the information provided to VETASSESS did not cover the full spectrum of your responsibilities or skill level, or if you believe your employment may indeed be classifiable under another VETASSESS occupation, then you may instead wish to apply for a Reassessment – Change of Occupation or Reassessment – Review of Negative Outcome. As part of the reassessment process, applicants are encouraged to provide any further documentation to support information already supplied in their initial application. Please see further details below:

Reassessment Options:
1. You can apply for a Reassessment - Review of a Negative Outcome. This is another assessment of your case by a new team of assessors who have not previously been involved in your case. You are able to submit any further evidence which supports your case for review of the outcome. Please bear in mind the assessment details in my explanation if you wish to have your case reviewed. You may apply online or complete a SRG02 Reassessment Request form and send via email to [email protected]
2. You can apply for a Reassessment - Change of Nominated Occupation if you feel that your qualifications and employment experience would meet the requirements of another occupation assessed by VETASSESS. You may apply online or complete a SRGO8 Change of Occupation Request form and send via email to [email protected]

To supply any additional evidence to support your reassessment application, you may do so by uploading documentation to your reassessment or attaching it to an email. Please note that further clarification of your employment may be required in the case of reassessment, and that there is no guarantee that you would receive a positive outcome for this or any other occupation. Before applying for any further assessment, please take note of the reason for the initial negative outcome as detailed on your outcome letter and this email.

I hope that the above information is of assistance to you. Please contact VETASSESS again via [email protected] should you have any further enquiries.

Regards,